ANTSTORE World of Ants

[miszt]

I do have this species Frico....this is my thread

[Frico]

and you have waited how long to get workers?

[miszt]

first generation was 12 months, I have some coccons still from last year that have not yet hatched

checkout The Ants, by Bert Hölldobler & Edward O. Wilson, theres a good section on colony growth which specificy talks about Camp hercs egg to worker development

I think you are confusing tropical species of Camponotus, which have a much fast growth rate

[badman]

I find my herculaneus to be quite a shy colony, do you have the same experience? Especially in contrast to my ligniperda, which love to escape.

Also what foods do you like to feed them? i'm growing concerned about mine not eating enough, i've seen the workers walk right over a fruitfly and completely ignore it.

[Frico]

miszt, have you readen any other members experience with these ants ans see how they'll discribe the development?They all say 2-2,5 months.(i read in the german forums)
plus, i have 6 colonies with Camponotus herculeanus and one Camponotus ligniperda and they all need 2-3 months to develop.
-If you give them the right treatment. Which include lots of food, warm temperatures, a cold hibernation...you said your cocoon from last year still needed to hatch.
you know, cocoons and eggs can't hibernate.They would die.
So either you didnt give them a cold hibernation( therefore they could hibernate too, which is extremely strange and unlikely)
Or they are dead inside and wont hatch anymore.
If you could quote that part you mentioned of "the Ants" that would be nice.
Im sure its something that can happen under extreme conditions or just for queens like i said.

-Frico

[badman]

Remember there's more than one variety of herculaneus. linnaeus pennsylvanicus, ferrugincus for example. Also I don't think Miszt bought his from Antstore, so it is probably a different variety to the ones most people on these forums have.

[miszt]

I wil post the quote in a few days, its stil in a box sumwhere

Only larva went into hibernation, the cocoons i have now formed a few weeks ago

And of course i hibernated them correctly!

I would like to see some evidence that they can develop in 2-3 months, that is certainly not my experience, or that of 2 of the most highly regard myrmycologist in the world...

What temp are you keeping the nest at? And what are you feeding them? I imagine it is possible to speed development by increasing the temp, upto a point, you should bear in mind however that increasing ther metabolic rate beyond there natrual state wil also decrease their life span

[miszt]

And yep i didnt get them from antstore

[Frico]

Okay, enough.This is getting ridicules.
I dont talk about Ants from Antstore! It doesnt matter where they come from!
I havent increased the temp to high or anything, their lifespan wont shorten(what an odd thing to say)
Up until now, these two highly regarded myrmycologist in the world havent spoken, you have and u havent quoted anything. So its just your word against mine.
Now i'll change that, here i have the scientist John Lossen pricer who specificly talks about Camponotus herculeanus and the varieties C. pennsylvanicus and C. ferrugineus.
He noticed that there werent any major difference between them.
But more interisting, that their egg to adult development were even long and took about 66 days. Link:
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(at page 4 he mention the 66 days)
And here is a quote from a guy in a german forum and his experience:

Ei zu Larve: 21 - 26 Tage(Tage=days)(Monate=Months)
Larve zu Puppe: 25 - 30 Tage
Puppe zu Imago: 28 - 35 Tage
Insgesamt/all together: etwa 2,5 - 3 Monate / 75 - 90 Tage (siehe auch Haltungsbericht von Tobias)

Link:
http://ameisenforum.de/europaeische-art ... ungen.html

So here i've given you a scientist, another guy in the internet who has ants and me saying its 2-3 Months.
Ive checked alot, i couldnt find any who supported what you said.

Camponotus is known for its long development, the other species mostly only need 1 month-1,5 month.Therefore 2-2,5 month is very long.

And remember, ther is the term "slow-brood".It's used for the larvas which hibernate.They cant grow during the winter, therefore they'll stay longer in the larva state.But still, not for 12-18 months.
Camponotus species love warmth more than other species, therefore the temp. should be around 25-30 degrees during summer.Sometimes they even take their cocoons outside when its hotter their, so they'll speed the development.

-Frico

[mzfckr]

i dont know really who is right, but i do know that book ''The Ants'' is the best book in the world about it.so i trust more a very good book than a internet ''scientist''.

[Frico]

you cant be a "internet" scientist.A internet scientist is a scientist in the real world aswell.Look up who he is.
The book "the Ants" doesn't concentrate about specific things, but shows the reader examples of many different things about ants.
You cant put all the knowledge of Ants in one book, or even in ten books.
Plus, im not saying the book is wrong, but that miszt is.Hes not an substitute for it, he has to prove things through quotes.

-Frico

[miszt]

Good grief chil out. Why would i lie? I wil provide quotes when i can, in the meantime, feel free to contribute to my experience thread but avoiding this topic.

Increasing their metabolic beyond thier norm will decrease thier life span, this is common with many insects, reptiles and fish.

I dont know who told you The Ants doesnt concentrate on specific things, but they obviously havent taken the time to read it

[Phasmid]

Increasing their metabolic beyond thier norm will decrease thier life span, this is common with many insects, reptiles and fish

Totaly agree with miszt here.

[Frico]

I'm saying that you are wrong, not lying.
I'll wait for your quote, but before i'll settle the "metabolic beyond the norm".
At the point they develop faster(or better), you will have to beleave that it is their optimal temp they have.
If it wasn't, and it would be to hot, to dry.They wouldnt develop fast, but slower, or even not at all.
If you keep Camponotus spe. at an temp. over 30 degrees, they'll hibernate earlier, than at lower temperatures.
Thats the only disadvantage; over 35-38 degrees the larva would start to dry out and die.
I've feeded mine with insects every second day, and held them at an temperature of 25-31. degrees.( i havent harmed them anyway, see?plus, its something that "could" happen, it "could" be the reason mine develop faster.But it isn't!They develop normal and 12-18 months is extremely strange.)
p.s i cant chill out, since i beleave that what you say is very wrong and false informations should be corrected in forums.Im realy just helping.

-Frico

[miszt]

If you are claiming that The Ants does not say what I said it does, then you are saying I'm lying Frico, because I am telling you what the book says, quote or no quote, it says what it says. Buy the book, and read it, coz actually I am not going to spend the next few hours digging around for it just to show someone who is determined to be a know it all, I have a million other things I'd much rather do

30 Degrees seems excesivly hot to me, these ants come from Europe and Northern America, not Africa! Even in Africa, nests of subterranian ants are significantly cooler than the outside tempreture (<26C @ 50cm depth, <28C @ 10cm, i did lots of measurements when I was there in Jan). Check their distribution, and you will see that they do not live in countries that reguly top 40C for months on end, they often use the dead trunks of trees for their nests, which they will fill with brood to warm up, but we are talking about temps of 24-28C, not 30+, imo keeping this species at these tempretures is not good for them.

Metabolic rates, you are correct, if you speed it up to much, then it will slow down, as I said, but there is a point upto which you can speed things up, after that point the enzymes do not behave correctly, and eventually you will kill them. By increasing the tempreture, and therefore the metabolic rate, you are essentially speeding up the rate at which they use energy, the speed at which enzymes work, and the amount of oxygen they use, all these things contribute to a shorter life span, the clearest indication of this effect can be seen in tropical fish, temps of 27-28 degrees will make your fish far more active, but reduce their life span by upto 50%, temps between 25-27 they will slow down, but live longer, and on either side of those tempretures is one common outcome, death.

12-18 months is normal, as stated in The Ants, read it yourself, as I've already said, I dont feel i need to prove anything, unlike yourself.

I am going to assume, that as you are only 20, you cant yet have had your C herc colony(s) for 5+ years yet, so will not know whether or not you have reduced their life span by keeping them at that tempreture.


That is the END of this discussion on my experience thread, if you wish to start your own thread about it, then please feel free, but I do not want my experience thread filled up with your argumentative posts any more, please respect this, or i will ask for your posts to be deleted.