ANTSTORE World of Ants

[Tottofagrin]

Hi! First post, so first of all hi everyone! I'm in the planning stage of my first formicarium so I'm full of questions that I'm in the process of researching.

One thing though I'll run by you guys. I think I'll be making a cast premade nest for my ants (probably Lasius niger). But since they will not be able to design the layout of chambers, galleries and tunnels by themselves I'd like the basic architecture to resemble that of a natural nest of that genus. I've tried to google and I've found a lot of interesting stuff but it's usually examples from a genus that I'm not likely to have in a formicarium for a while at least.

So, my question is, do you know of any basic visual guide to different architectural principles employed by various ant species? Chamber and gallery sizes and shapes? Angle of tunnels? Vertical or horizontal dominant layout?

Here is an article I found to be very interesting on the subject and regarding Aphaenogaster genus. Hyperlinks sind nur für registrierte Nutzer sichtbar

Thanks for a great site!

/Karl

[baumarkthammer]

Hello and welcome to the Forum.

Lasius aren't very picky when it comes to the nest, especially Lasius niger. They are often found under stones and loosely in the ground, often in cities. In keeping they accept most nests.

Only very few ants are dependent on their nest structure to the extent that you would have to account for it in keeping at home. You should rahter build the nest in a way that you can observe the best.

Regards
Kaj

[Tottofagrin]

Hi Kaj and thanks for the answer!

I realize that many ant species accept a nest design different from what they would design themselves. It's mostly for my own sake that I want to "design" a nest that resembles the species natural home. Maybe I'll just let them dig for themselves and just try to keep it as two dimensional as I can and keep it shielded from light so they don't try to block the light with soil.

But if anyone have any source of different types of nest architecture, please share! As an architect myself I think it's really interesting! Don't you sometimes feel it would be awesome if you could walk around deep inside of an ant nest for an hour? Without the ants present of course... Otherwise it would be the worst nightmare imaginable...

[baumarkthammer]

Well the parts of the nest that you can observe in nature (when lifting a stone for example) from Lasius niger are mostly large flat chambers. When using a farm the ants can not build the nest like they would in nature. At some point they get rid of most of the dirt and just leave enough to seperate the "floors" from each other.
When leaving them to build a nest completley on their own you couldn't look inside at all.

It is hard to tell how exactly Lasius niger nests are structured when they are not directly under a stone since there is no way of opening them without destroying the chambers. You could try to fill up a nest with gypsum and tell us... however the chambers are fairly flat and I guess they wouldn't fill up with the gypsum properly...

I think you can get the best idea of how ants build underground when you open a nest they made in wood. Flat long chambers just seperated by a thin wall and a confusing and seemingly senceless system of tunnels that seem to be way to small. However directly under the bark there are large chambers because they heat up the fastest, with those big chambers the heat can be used the best. Lasius brunneus build such nests for example. I could imagine that Lasius niger do something like that underground.
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A walk through a antnest might be cool but you would never find your way out.

Regards
Kaj

[Tottofagrin]

Thanks for the input on Lasius niger architecture! I have also seen many Lasius niger nests when turned a stone over. I think maybe one thing to think about when doing a artificial nest as close to nature as possible is to do the chambers a lot deeper than usual. Deep flat chambers like floors of a building. I think it would be nice to add a bit of depth to the formicarium as well.

I've thought about adding a few tunnels to the nest that's not in contact with the glass but goes out of view for a short distance to also add a bit of depth and a sense of 3d. You could have tunnel openings facing the glass instead of running parallell to the glass which you normally see. I don't think it would be too much loss if you don't have full view of every piece of tunnel or crevice in the nest.

Thanks again!

/Karl

[baumarkthammer]

I can't follow you there. First of all flat is the opposite of deep.^^
Personally I have never seen a chamber of any ant that was deeper than a few cm, even big ants like Camponotus vagus don't make such deep chambers. Even the chambers of Harpegnathos saltator are only about 1,5cm deep and even the smallest workers are about that long.

[Tottofagrin]

A lot of the casts I've seen of different ant nests clearly shows chambers that are flat and disc like in appearance.









But in ytong nests the chambers are usually quite shallow. If you let them dig in a narrow gap between two pieces of glass you won't get very deep chambers either. While in nature a nest isn't as two dimensional as we are forced to make them in captivity if we want to be able to watch the nest in any way.

My idea was to make the chambers flat (floor and ceiling) but a lot deeper (away from the glass) than you see most of the time. Also to add a few tunnels between the chambers hidden from view but with visible openings close to the glass to also add a bit of realism and a sense that it is a lot bigger and not as flat as it really is. The easiest way to do this I guess would be to do a negative in clay and then cast it in plaster or concrete.

[baumarkthammer]

Oh I see, sorry I missunderstood.
The nests of Lasius niger aren't that deep. I would guess that in spring and summer they aren't deeper than 30cm depending on region but that is just a guess. However only because of the heat. Such a project for a nest for keeping ants would be very cool but I'm not the best one in building nests.^^

You have to remember that a small colony wouldn't be good for such a nest because they would only live in one or two chambers. A really big colony however would be great.

I don't reccomend using concrete. Use gypsum. It sounds like a bad material to make nests but concrete doesn't suck water that good and dries quick.

Regards
Kaj

[Tottofagrin]

I wouldn't make the nest as deep (high) as shown in the pictures.

I am considering Messor barbarus as an alternative to Lasius niger. Shorter hibernation, dryer climate, bigger and faster growing colonies. As a matter of fact I am leaning towards Messor right now...

Maybe concrete could be used in a more dry nest as the Messor's? If I use concrete I'll use Perlite to lighten it and not make it as heavy.

If I find any Lasius queens during mating maybe I do a smaller setup wiht her...

Can't wait to start building!

/Karl

[MrIglo]

Hello,
using cement is not that simple.

The water–cement ratio is very important, it has a strong effect on the charakteristics after hardening.
If the nest becomes relatively watertight, but stays permeable for water vapour, it can in combination with heating lead to an aggregation of liquid water inside the chambers.
Former tests, that I conducted indicate, it would be helpfull to add 30% of gypsum.

You could use simply a horizontal ytong nest.
I could not observe a big advantage using a horizontal nest! Maybe the glass is contaminated slower with dirt.

But there is a disadvantage concerning the irrigation. It is more complicated to create a moisture gradient using a horizontal nest.

greetings

[Tottofagrin]

I think maybe that I haven't really been able to convey my plans..

I'd like to make a vertical nest, either out of ytong or cast gipsum/concrete. What I was talking about was the actual chambers. I'd like to make them bigger, ie more floorspace. That they stretches deeper into the concrete/gipsum/ytong. To resemble the examples of natural ant nest that I've seen (pictures above).

I understand your concerns about concrete and I appreciate your input! How about just having glass on one side and leaving the other sides open to aeration? And if I go with Messor sp., I wouldn't have to water the nest as much, right?

If I go with gipsum, can the Messor ants chew through it? I know that they can chew through Ytong.

/Karl

[MrIglo]

if I go with Messor sp., I wouldn't have to water the nest as much, right?

Yes.
I cant predict what moisture level is necessary to cause the water aggregation effect, that made one of my experimental nests usless.

If I go with gipsum, can the Messor ants chew through it? I know that they can chew through Ytong.

Yes again
It depends on the colony size and time of exposure to the ants.
The right mixture of cement, gypsum and water could maybe solve the problem or delay the erosion process of the nest.

I'd like to make them bigger, ie more floorspace. That they stretches deeper into the concrete/gipsum/ytong. To resemble the examples of natural ant nest that I've seen (pictures above).

Ok, i think i did understand this.

Is it simply for design reasons? Or do you expect a benefit for the ants?

greetings

[Tottofagrin]

The most nests I've seen has quite "shallow" chambers and seem to do very well in those, so I guess it's more for my own sake that I want to make them bigger.

About aggregation in Messor nests... I've read a few diaries where people don't water their nests at all and leave them very dry (normal room humidity). They seemed to do quite well...

Is it the brood chamber that needs the humidity? So with a tall nest where you water the bottom, the top chambers keeps dry enough for seed storage?

Another question regarding Messor barbarus - the trash basin, is that normally made up of a separate container or do the ants choose one of the chambers inside the nest? If so, how do you normally "take out the trash" when it's full?

Thanks again for all support!

/Karl

[MrIglo]

i never had Messor spec. I cant give you specific advice.

Is it the brood chamber that needs the humidity?

I think so.

So with a tall nest where you water the bottom, the top chambers keeps dry enough for seed storage?

This is possible.

The usage of separate nests can simplify the handling.


Ants try to put the trash at a dry place. They try to heap the trash on few places. It is impossible to predict where they place teyr garbage heaps.
Alls trash thats end up in the arena is easy to remove by hand. Trash in the nest stays there until you exchange the nest.

greetings

[Tottofagrin]

Thanks for your help!