ANTSTORE World of Ants

[miszt]

This thread will be a bit like a wiki, as new points and ideas come up,i'll add them to the top of the thread

Food Sources:

Carbohydrates - Seeds - grasses and high-yeld but small seeding plants
Sugar - Honey Dew (aphids?), Honey, Sugar, Nectar - flowering plants?
Protien - Insects - obviously somthing that wont eat the ants or make to much mess
Water - this would have to be supplied by the owner, unless it was placed in the garden, but it wuld still not have access to the water table

Contamination

Ant waste - Ammonia, Nitrites.. this is not usually an issue, as biological systems will setup within a week or so to deal with these chemicals
Mold - ventilation
Parasites
Mites - some of these are good, and will clear up mess, some are not, also preditory mites could be introduced to control other inhabitants, but would they attack brood?

Humidity and Water

If a good biological filter can be setup, then a 'pond' could be used, with plants, to humidify and provide a good water supply

Heat

I'm not a fan of heat mats or rocks, i prefer using lamps, as they provide a light source aswell as heat, I usually use a 12w bulb hooked to a timer and a thermostat, which keeps temps around 26C depending on the size of the tank obviously, the tanks i have are quiet big and havnt yet gona over 26.5C, in summer that will change of course


To stabalize an eco system, contamination must be kept as close to nothing as possible, and food at a level that supports the ants, but does not destroy the eco system

Plants will absorb chemicals from ant waste

There would need to be a large enough space that will keep a balance between rotten bio-matter and clean space...

tbh, i dont htink this is possible, but maybe....it works in our gardens, so why not in a tank?

thoughts....

[akell]

I think this is a good idea. I think space will be the biggest limiting factor, perhaps a dooming factor. It might certainly be attempted with acorn ants (Temnothorax nylanderi) and a really big basin.
Using another species, one could, if one has the inclination and the means, order a really BIG basin, say a custom 6x6x(y) meter basin and give it a try. I'm not joking here, it would certainly be a feather in someones cap.

[JimmyVe]

If you can make the farm large enough it might work.

[SNiDE]

I like this idea of a mini-eden project. I think to do it you'd need several ant keepers, like a communal project in a rented room/area/lab or something with enough equipment to keep everything in balance

[Messorus]

Lol
I´m going to make self bio-shepre of ,,soil world" in one tank. I will put mites, mealworms, small insects, springtails as hunting food and Ponera ant queens like their biological predators... On the top of the tank will be just moos, humus and old flora material from forest.....

[fhoelzl]

it wont´t work. ants are high-energy-meat-consuming-animals, and designing an ecosphere with such animals would be impossible even for universitys.

[Phasmid]

Yes, to sustain a colony in this way you would need a very large enclosure and an ant spec that produces very small colonies.

[fhoelzl]

biosphere 2, a multi-millio-dollar-project, faild because of some ants....

[Messorus]

,,Bio- shepre" is also common name for closed ecosystems.... and I´m really sure that it will work right. ,,Animals" od Acarina, Enchytraea and Collembola will be feeded on humus bacterias and so on. They will be eaten by predators- Ponera coarctata. These ants have 3.5mm(gyne) and 2.8- 3.1mm workers..... Their colonies coud be polygyn, with three queens one my very very experienced ant mate keeped around 150 workers at his Ponera colony, but this is real maximul. Colonies usualy have around 60 members... When I will keep them in tank 15 x 20 x 15cms, I think it will be OK

[Phasmid]

Your going to have this ecosystem in a 15x20x15cm basin? Thats way to small, the P.coarctata prey will not be able to breed quick enough to sustain even a few ants.

[Messorus]

Your going to have this ecosystem in a 15x20x15cm basin? Thats way to small, the P.coarctata prey will not be able to breed quick enough to sustain even a few ants.

This bassin is just bit smaller, it have overall shape.... Yes I know about that, it´s like L. niger of 30 workers, living in terarium 100 x 50 x 50cms, but this is somethink different. The true is, that Ponera are really small ants, but did you ever saw thes ants youreself live, in nature? They need just old ,,chamber" by soil worm and they make normal nest in it, they don´t build their nest themselfs or just really sometimes.... I will put there clay soil and make small chambers in it, and than there will be ,,overworld" where they will have somethink like arena under wood or somethink.... Other owerworld will be for their food, Colembolla, Encyhtraea, Acarina and other and they will visit their arena too..... I´m studing the case of Hypoponera(schauinsladni, punctatissima) living in common tropical houses, botanic gardens and so on- they have huge space for predating there.. Also their queens make new colonies by hunting in big spaces in soil flower- pots.... So I must try keeping Ponera in ,,free claustral space", but you´re true, that they won´t breed much members, if they will live in this....
Processes in nature, which human´s eye can´t see are usually easier, that processes which human do by his own act and control.....

[Mikey_Bustos]

I don't intend on ruining plans because I truly love the idea, but I have done this in the past (not with ants but with other terrestrial fauna/flora), and I feel it's a little more complicated than has been assessed. Mother Nature is much more complex than she appears.

For one thing, you will require a very large aquarium for it to work and for the wildlife to proliferate properly (plants included). Mine was in a 200 gallon aquarium and lasted 4 years until I decided to release everyone. If you intend on adding larger animals like crickets/grasshoppers, snails/slugs, and wolf spiders you will really need to have a greater space or else one of the food sources will run out. Though it seems impractical, a terrarium the size of a bathroom but laid lengthwise could probably sustain a terrestrial community well.

You also need to take into consideration air circulation. You will need an air pump installed to keep the air in the tank moving. It is essential for the plants, as well. With dead air you will get lots of mold and in enclosed system, lots of condensation so an air pump will be needed to keep the air from getting stagnant.

You also need to take into consideration photoperiod, as many of the organisms you have listed (plants included) depend on specific photoperiod cycles for things like breeding, germination, etc.

You really need to study every specific animal/plant you place in there. Many insects/arthopods have preferred territory requirements and often won't share with other animals (which is why space is so important). Also the manner in which you create the various niches is so essential. The topography must be diverse enough to allow all the organisms to occupy their preferred niches, e.g. wood lice living in crevices, mosses living in wet soil, ferns living in shadier areas, earthworms living in the substrate, spiders living under rocks, etc. It's important to give all organisms their necessary niche when deciding on how to landscape, especially if you're hoping to squeeze many living things together in a relatively small space.

What is below the ground line is just as important if not more important than what is above. You have to consider the content of the substrate you're using. It must have the nutrients and microbiota necessary to fueling the rest of the ecosystem. In other words, you can't expect to have a self-sustaining ecosystem using just sand or a bag of substrate from the pet store. I'd recommend getting soil from a forest and digging up the first layer of soil (decaying matter) and putting it in a bag, then digging more into the second layer and placing that into a second bag, and digging further into the third layer (and placing it into a third bag), and then add the layers over some gravel in the order that they existed in nature. All that substrate is important because it will contain all the terrestrial fungi, lichens, molds, bacteria, microorganisms, miniature arthopods & molluscs, which will benefit the other living things in the ecosystem.

To be honest, I feel adding ants to the complex system above would make it even more of a difficult feat, especially because ants are pretty territorial and just might clean the entire ecosystem of other insects if your terrarium isn't big enough.

However, I wish you the best of luck on your venture!!! Keep us posted on the progress! You don't learn if you don't try!

[Messorus]

Hello guys
I have new experience... I keep a colony of P. coarcatata in a net from Nutela, with rubber closing. There is mixture of soil, leaf-leater, wood and other types of substrates. I put it there around 10 months ago and after two months added Collembola and Enchytraea. Than, when it was 5 months old, I´ve put there a colony of Ponera coarctata... And ants, now hibernating, are free living in it, and I feed them just once a month, it´s not necessary. Collembola feeds on leaf-litter and humus, and Poneras are catching it. You can find my diary here : Hyperlinks sind nur für registrierte Nutzer sichtbar

[Notraymond]

I've done this before with far more simpler things (freshwater shrimp). If you don't want to get too much of a headache planning it, I suggest using an organism that does not need so much food or space, for example isopods (pill bugs). The biggest challenge is controlling population, I cant think of anything simple for that. If you want to forgo the ants, it is ok as they are demanding creatures for such a small system.

[CROant]

" The biggest challenge is controlling population, I cant think of anything simple for that. "

Try with Drosera burmannii