Biggest european Camponotus

Biggest european Camponotus

Beitragvon mtrein » 31. Okt 2011 22:20

Hi, can anyone tell me what size are the queens and workers for the three or four biggest european Camponotus subspecies? I have searched but I could not find this information easily, and there is a lot of contradicting information.
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Re: Biggest european Camponotus

Beitragvon AntsInSL » 31. Okt 2011 22:44

Very big Camponotus subspecies are Camponotus cruentatus (queen about 18mm; workers about 8-16mm)
and Camponotus ligniperdus (queen about 17mm; workers about 5-16mm).
Another very big subspecies is Camponotus barbaricus (queen about 18mm and workers between 8mm and 16mm).
Only Camponotus ligniperdus lives in North-Europe, the others in South-Europe.
Regards, AIS
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Re: Biggest european Camponotus

Beitragvon mtrein » 31. Okt 2011 23:23

Thanks AIS!

How big would Camponotus vagus be? And is it safe to say the biggest ant species in Europe is Camponotus?
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Re: Biggest european Camponotus

Beitragvon Morphium » 31. Okt 2011 23:42

Camponotus vagus Queen is about 14-16mm and the workers about 6-12. Camponotus spec. actually is the biggest in Europe!
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Re: Biggest european Camponotus

Beitragvon mtrein » 1. Nov 2011 00:21

Thanks, Morphium.

Just as a comparison, what is the biggest Messor sp. in europe and how big would be queens and workers?
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Re: Biggest european Camponotus

Beitragvon maczek » 1. Nov 2011 13:22

Biggest european Camponotus is Camponotus ligniperdus, my queen is 19mm long.
I think, the biggest Messor, is Messor barbarus, queen is ~15mm long :)

Sorry for my bad English. : (
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Re: Biggest european Camponotus

Beitragvon mtrein » 1. Nov 2011 13:28

Thank you, Maczek! And your English is very good =c]
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Re: Biggest european Camponotus

Beitragvon baumarkthammer » 1. Nov 2011 15:37

The biggest for sure is Camponotus ligniperdus. Hard to tell which is the second since Camponotus aethiops and Camponotus vagus look very alike and are nearly same size.
Camponotus ligniperdus sometimes lives in South Europe but is very rare there just as Camponotus vagus here, the two species live in pretty much the same nests and have a livestyle that is very alike that is why they can´t coexist.

There aren´t many small species anyway exept Camponotus truncatus. There also is Camponotus piceus in the south but their size is something in between Camponotus aethiops and Camponotus fallax.

Camponotus cruentatus is a little smaller than Camponotus ligniperdus but I only saw them once or twice in direct comperession.
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Re: Biggest european Camponotus

Beitragvon mtrein » 1. Nov 2011 16:05

Thanks, Kaj. We could perhaps create some kind of list of sizes for queens and workers (and other castes as appropriate) and leave it as a sticky somewhere in the forum, I'm sure it would be helpful for people who are thinking of getting a particular species. I didn't find such information. I would start it but I have very limited knowledge on sizes. I can contribute with sizes of species that I find here in the south of Brazil.
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Re: Biggest european Camponotus

Beitragvon Morphium » 1. Nov 2011 17:53

Just google the species and youll get the size!
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Re: Biggest european Camponotus

Beitragvon mtrein » 1. Nov 2011 18:05

Morphium hat geschrieben:Just google the species and youll get the size!


Not always. I have tried that, sometimes I do not get information on size, sometimes information is contradictory.
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Re: Biggest european Camponotus

Beitragvon maczek » 1. Nov 2011 18:06

mtrein hat geschrieben:And your English is very good =c]


Thank You :)

mtrein hat geschrieben: We could perhaps create some kind of list of sizes for queens and workers (and other castes as appropriate) and leave it as a sticky somewhere in the forum, I'm sure it would be helpful for people who are thinking of getting a particular species. I didn't find such information. I would start it but I have very limited knowledge on sizes. I can contribute with sizes of species that I find here in the south of Brazil.


Great idea. :) I can contribute with sizes of species that I find in Poland.
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Re: Biggest european Camponotus

Beitragvon Eman » 3. Nov 2011 00:27

Yeah sometimes internet it's tricky.

Biggest Messors are the cephalots and the arenarius .
But both are hard to get.
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Re: Biggest european Camponotus

Beitragvon baumarkthammer » 3. Nov 2011 04:53

Messor arenarius and cephalotes don´t live in Europe but both live in Africa.
The biggest European Messor is Messor capitatus, the majors are quite big and have ridiculously humongous heads. They are as big as Pheidologeton diversus but are even a little more massiv.

@mtrein, your idea is hard to realize. You would have to put much work in such a project and it would take very long time. Some other forums already did like a warrant of apprehension on some species but nearly not every species listed for Europe is listed there and it will be very hard for ants like Plagiolepis spp. which is <1mm or someting like this and still has several species listed in south Europe.
When you don´t find anything than just for example type "antweb Camponotus vagus" into google search.
Antweb is a very good site to take a first look on some ants, also has very many photos of ants from around the world. But there is only a list of sientific publications to each ant and no data like size and stuff. However the photos have a little scale and you can guess on how big the ant is.
But also antweb isn´t always right...
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Re: Biggest european Camponotus

Beitragvon mtrein » 3. Nov 2011 13:23

That's a good tip, Kaj, but I find that there's not much information on antweb and, as you stated yourself, sometimes information is contradictory to other places.

I realise that there are too many species and such, but maybe we could do a list of more common species. Perhaps an open sticky which would be updated as soon as someone would add another species and subspecies and its size for queen and worker (and more castes, if polymorphic). Would this work? I don't see anything like this in any other forum, so it would be something new and unique to have such a sticky in this forum.
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