ANTSTORE World of Ants

[adam james]

Hey Frogger glad to see your Ants are still going strong, Great stuff mate

Adam

[Frogger1]

Thanks Adam Good to hear your ants are doing ok too!

[Frogger1]

As stated in an earlier post, I am in contact with the seller of these ants about the mite situation and the seller blamed me for the infestation. Here are some quotes from an email I recieved from the seller a few days ago;

"It is well known that diseases manifest themselves especially when colonies are under stress - which does seem to point to your care and attention not being very good."


"Who are these lots of people who have told you about these geographically specific mites? - People on the forum sites that are generally quite young and not very scientifically qualified! Have you heard of 'flaming' - where people say things to try and cause problems - a lot goes on especially with other traders masquerading as forum members who try and discredit the competition."

"I have no knowledge of the temperature and humidity or type of food with regards your colony"

I did confirm the conditions of my setup with the seller prior to getting the ants which he said were fine and he even suggested some of the foods I feed the colony.

"all I know is that it was fit and healthy when I sent it and in a period of three months you managed to reduce it to a sickly mite infested wreck! Well done - I will put this down as being credit to your vast experience of keeping ants! If I was you I would try something like Lasius niger - you may be able to keep those - at least for a few months anyway!"

The moment I contacted him about the mites he pinned the blame on me, even ignored my emails at one point, he couldn't offer any advice at all for this problem. When I first contacted him about purchasing the colony he seemed very helpful and then the mite problem arose...

[MajorSpud]

well, frogger, I have to admit that if mites arise weeks after you get the colony, they were proabably not there when you got the colony.

also, it just happens a lot that PD simply does not work out, especially if you try very hard. it is frustrating, I know, but in the end it is your responsibility, and only the traders if you get a right away infested colony.

why the specific trader gets so close to angry and blames I cannot say, since I do not know the communication that was happening before between u and him.

I can say up to now i have only received healthy colonies of pd from the traders I bought at, in the uk and in germany.

but, as I have said repeatedly before, nearly all coloniew have a big breakdown during the first four weeks of keeping them. if you get over this, you are usually fine.

try to get along with the guy, and eventualöly check where you might have blamed him for something, this could ease the whole sit a lot

[Frogger1]

I understand your point of view MajorSpud but I'm sure they haven't come from my end, I was hoping the trader would atleast be able to offer advice once I discovered the mites but straight away he was blaming me and said he didn't know how to help.

"It is well known that diseases manifest themselves especially when colonies are under stress - which does seem to point to your care and attention not being very good."

Isn't transportation a very stressful time for animals? I remember before I recieved the ants he messaged me saying how they were under so much stress some of the brood was getting aborted. From what he said in that quote, maybe the mites appeared during transit. I would imagine my care is not the problem, surely they wouldn't seem to be thriving if they were under so much stress from wrong conditions, it's be about ten weeks I have had them now.

Also when I recieved the ants I didn't inspect them, I put the tube straight into the tank as I didn't realise it arrives with one end open and I didn't want an army of ants crawling up my arm and I also wanted to keep stress to a minimum by putting them straight into the setup.

Also I'm stopping contact with the seller after he insulted forum members and myself. I posted these quotes as I couldn't believe the nature of his reply as he did seem very professional up until I contacted him about the mites.

[adam james]

Hello Frogger, im so sorry to hear things arnt well with your ants still and sorry to hear your having problems with the supplier. I cannot add much here either mate, Like Major I have also had many healthy [Pheildologeton] Pheidologeton diversus colonies from uk and overseas suppliers and my experiance dealing with them has always been great. Even when my colonies failed the suppliers all tried there best to offer advice and were very helpful.

Sorry I cannot offer more advice, I really do hope you sort it out, still hoping to trade queens and drones with you in the future lol

Regards

Adam

[Edit: Mod]

[manofants]

Very interesting to read about the terrible service you have had from the vendor frogger. But let’s put the record straight and give the forum members a bit more information regards your problem:

As you are so keen on giving quotes or ‘partial quotes’ then here are a few more:

From you to the vendor:

“I was very happy with them as they seemed fine and I was happy with watching them when I first got them. Now I'm not happy with them” - Eight weeks after receiving them!!!

“I do appreciate all the info you shared with me about these ants, I have learnt a lot” – Not what you are saying now!!!

And a few direct quotes from the vendor:

“I refer you to my terms and conditions again. If you had checked the ants and found any mites and notified me within the correct time frame then you would have had a full refund or replacement colony - but unfortunately not two months later.”

“May I suggest you submit a PayPal dispute then they will have an independent advisor consider both sides of the dispute and make a decision which is final.” – Unfortunately PayPal decided that it was past the time scale allowed for a dispute. I wonder why?

“With this in mind I am willing to meet you half way and supply another colony at half the list price. I feel this is a fair compromise for customer relations.” – You forgot to mention this to the other forum members – must have just slipped your mind.

There are two sides to every dispute and it amuses me that those who can not get their own way try and discredit others on the forum sites.

[Frogger1]

I did learn alot about these ants from you, being new to ants a few months ago I didn't know much about them which is why I had so many questions to ask you. Once I discovered the mites I did do research on them before I messaged you and you started blaming me for the infestation straight away.

I also like how you don't acknowledge certain parts of my messages,

"It is well known that diseases manifest themselves especially when colonies are under stress"

Isn't transportation a very stressful time for animals? You told me some of the brood got aborted due to all the stress they were going through from being shipped, so from what you said it seems the outbreak of parasites could've started whilst in transit.


“With this in mind I am willing to meet you half way and supply another colony at half the list price. I feel this is a fair compromise for customer relations.”

Obviously I wouldn't take your offer, I think I've made it obvious I believe the parasites came from your end so even if you offered me another colony for free I wouldn't have taken it just incase it was infested.


I did message you not long ago saying this the end of the matter for me!

[manofants]

Just a few more direct quotes from your previous emails to balance the argument:

“Also I don't for one minute believe I am keeping them wrong.” – Must be due to your vast experience of keeping such a wide range of ants – refresh my memory were these the first species that you have kept? and how many years experience did you have – three months!!!

“I'm 100% that the mites were already on the ants.” – Then why did you not mention it earlier rather than after such a long time? Especially as I would have thought you would have instantly noticed them with all your experience!!!

“I wouldn't have chosen this species as a first to keep if I didn't have as much experience with other animals as I do. I chose this species because I knew I could provide the correct care requirements.” - This seems a bit arrogant of you considering many hobbyists with many years of experience still have trouble with cultivating this species and they even have the good sense to admit to it.

The end of the matter!

[Frogger1]

The conditions are correct, you confirmed them prior to me getting the ants.

I mentioned it when I first spotted them, answered all your suggestions of where they could've come from aswell.

I don't understand how I'm being arrogant, I simply answered your question about why I chose these ants as a first colony instead of a more hardier species.

Also you still didn't acknowledge this,

"It is well known that diseases manifest themselves especially when colonies are under stress"

Isn't transportation a very stressful time for animals? You told me some of the brood got aborted due to all the stress they were going through from being shipped, so from what you said it seems the outbreak of parasites could've started whilst in transit.

[manofants]

Transport is stressful to colonies but it is only for a few days. It is a lot more stressful when the colonies are kept under the incorrect environmental conditions whether it is the wrong humidity, lack of fresh air or incorrect temperature!
The colonies were doing so well in Thailand that they had started to raise a brood of alates which is a sure sign they like the conditions – it was these alate larvae that were aborted as they need a stable temperature, constant care and an uninterrupted food supply. All my colonies have a good amount of brood sent with them as any of my customers would tell you – yours also had a large amount of brood when it was sent to you!
As for the mites suddenly materializing during transport this may explain why so many hobbyists have mite infections – it’s nothing that they have done its just that the mites have the ability to mysteriously materialize from nowhere.

What you are trying to say is that the ants had dormant mite eggs on them all the time I cared for the colonies while they were in Thailand and during the several weeks I had them in the UK, then they suddenly decided to hatch out about four weeks after you had them – Come on its just nonsense!

[Frogger1]

The main thing is my colony is still alive, honestly the end of the matter for me now.

[manofants]

Forums should be places where members can learn about their hobbies not a place to vent ones disappointment against someone who they think has wronged them.

What has been learnt: Always check the health of the colony after you receive it and notify the vendor immediately if anything is wrong. If you can not check the condition immediately for whatever reason tell the vendor and he would normally allow you an extra few days to check them over.
Don’t expect a vendor to be over sympathetic when you contact him a month or two later after receiving the colony telling him they weren’t healthy!

The ongoing blog regards the use of the hypoaspis predators is no doubt interesting to forum members and will be a useful reference for hobbyists with similar problems in the future.

[Frogger1]

The next set of workers are close to hatching, most of the pupaes are still white but some are darkening and so over night I think more will start to darken. Over the last couple days there have also been more soldiers pupating and alot more of the larvaes are darkening, turning into pupaes. I think the number of parasites will reduce again over the next month or two, the Hypoaspis are still alive in the setup so they must be living off of something.

[Frogger1]

Over the last few days alot of larvaes have started pupating into soldiers and over the last 24 hours two majors have started to pupate with another major larvae looking close to turning into a pupae soon. Some of the worker pupaes have now hatched and more look close to hatching.