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My point was simple tho tail, you just dont take something that is endangered.. Regardless of size.
And i mean only that taking a few queens doesn't endanger them even a little bit more. Unlike any way of reducing numbers of aphids and other forest "pests" in their territory (like removing dying or dead trees), which IS dangerous for them and this is what made them rare.
OK, thanks for your input guys; I'd point out that we're all on the same side here, I think we all have an interest in ants, and therefore care that species such as F. rufa don't become extinct, and as you say Miszt I have thought about it and wouldn't do anything that I thought would endanger these or any other ant colonies.
These particular ants are in a VERY public place, and unfortunately are given no protection at all by the park authority - for example, they could be helped a lot by closing that particular section of the park for a few days during the mating swarms, but they don't, so what actually happens is that the paths are covered in the dead bodies of workers and queens who have been squashed by people who just seem completely unaware of them.
Steve, as tail__ points out the analogy with this and taking a large endangered mammal from the wild is pretty silly, and of course I would do no such thing; I think if I picked up an entire mature colony and put it in a bag (which of course I wouldn't) then I think the comparison would be more valid, and that of course would be a terrible thing to do for the species.
I think you should try to put this in perspective - while I was googling on the legality of keeping F rufa, I came across a 'bushcraft' site that was talking about harvesting colonies to eat the larvae!:
" . . . If you're using Mearsy's method of collecting then don't put too much on the tarp otherwise instead of the ants carrying the larve to the eadges they just tuck it under the pile you 've made....less is actually more in this instance.
you can harvest the nests up to twice per year (carefully and in moderation) without causing them any damage or long term problems.
The larve taste very good fried with a oil and a little suger but I wouldn't say they really taste anything like shrimp. I collected a load for people to try at a large bushcraft camp last May and they were very good. It's not hard to collect them and takes very little work on your part. . . . "
http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=188
and here a construction company is talking about relocating their nests to make way for a road:
" . . . One of the significant mitigation works required was the relocation of over a dozen Red Wood Ant (formica rufa) nests identified along the verges of the A2 . . ."
http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:yIMltR4yaoQJ:www.cogap.com/externaldocs/aboutus/CRReview%25202006.pdf+Formica+rufa+legal&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=15&gl=uk
It's idiots like this who are endangering the species, not an ant-enthusiast collecting a handful of mated queens.
thats the problem Nortino, and as Ant Keepers, we should be setting an example, how can we possibly justify telling people they are rare and should be left alone if we dont ourselves?
Here in Belgium they are protected. So it is illegal to keep them here. Looks like it is not in England, still it is better to leave them. Maybe it is not impossible to keep them but in my opinion it is. ;) You can not make a farm that large and good like they would prefer.
if i were you i would put them back mate
says;
The Formica rufa is on the so-called Red List of Threatened Species of the International Union for Conservation of Nature and Natural Resources (IUCN).
" The Formica rufa is on the so-called Red List of Threatened Species of the International Union for Conservation of Nature and Natural Resources (IUCN). "
I assume you understand that being on this list is not the same as having protection under UK law. They are on this list because they are threatened; the fact that they are threatened has already been noted in this thread by several people, and nobody was disputing that, so I don't really see what you think you are contributing by quoting this.
Putting them back now would be pointless, they would almost certainly die, and I don't see how that benefits anyone.
I don't have anything else to say about this. As tail noted my taking a few mated queens has essentially no impact on this group of colonies or the species as a whole. I agree that in general people should not disturb Formica or any other ant colonies for that matter, and I haven't done this. You don't agree with my taking them. Fine. I don't agree with you. Jimmy please lock this thread since I think it's out-lived its usefulness.
im just saying whats what. im just telling you the status of the ant within the Uk, and i know they are NOT protected.
No hard feelings meant what so ever
You have to understand Nortino, that many people on here care allot about our endagered species in the UK, and many of us believe that they should be left alone entirly, very few queens survive nuptial flights, and even fewer still manage to establish a new nest, so they need every bit of help we can give them :) it is also just as important that we give people the right impression about what it is we do, can you imagine the disastor if another 100 or 1000 people decieded to start collecting Formica queens? :?
nortino with that kind of attitude its no wonder that some ant lovers get a bad name, and ants become protected. End of my moan!