Frico: (18. Mär 2008 21:14)

you cant be a "internet" scientist.A internet scientist is a scientist in the real world aswell.Look up who he is.
The book "the Ants" doesn't concentrate about specific things, but shows the reader examples of many different things about ants.
You cant put all the knowledge of Ants in one book, or even in ten books.
Plus, im not saying the book is wrong, but that miszt is.Hes not an substitute for it, he has to prove things through quotes.

-Frico

miszt: (18. Mär 2008 21:45)

Good grief chil out. Why would i lie? I wil provide quotes when i can, in the meantime, feel free to contribute to my experience thread but avoiding this topic.

Increasing their metabolic beyond thier norm will decrease thier life span, this is common with many insects, reptiles and fish.

I dont know who told you The Ants doesnt concentrate on specific things, but they obviously havent taken the time to read it ;-)

Phasmid: (18. Mär 2008 22:04)

Increasing their metabolic beyond thier norm will decrease thier life span, this is common with many insects, reptiles and fish
Totaly agree with miszt here.

Frico: (18. Mär 2008 22:08)

I'm saying that you are wrong, not lying.
I'll wait for your quote, but before i'll settle the "metabolic beyond the norm".
At the point they develop faster(or better), you will have to beleave that it is their optimal temp they have.
If it wasn't, and it would be to hot, to dry.They wouldnt develop fast, but slower, or even not at all.
If you keep Camponotus spe. at an temp. over 30 degrees, they'll hibernate earlier, than at lower temperatures.
Thats the only disadvantage; over 35-38 degrees the larva would start to dry out and die.
I've feeded mine with insects every second day, and held them at an temperature of 25-31. degrees.( i havent harmed them anyway, see?plus, its something that "could" happen, it "could" be the reason mine develop faster.But it isn't!They develop normal and 12-18 months is extremely strange.)
p.s i cant chill out, since i beleave that what you say is very wrong and false informations should be corrected in forums.Im realy just helping.

-Frico

miszt: (19. Mär 2008 00:33)

If you are claiming that The Ants does not say what I said it does, then you are saying I'm lying Frico, because I am telling you what the book says, quote or no quote, it says what it says. Buy the book, and read it, coz actually I am not going to spend the next few hours digging around for it just to show someone who is determined to be a know it all, I have a million other things I'd much rather do ;)

30 Degrees seems excesivly hot to me, these ants come from Europe and Northern America, not Africa! Even in Africa, nests of subterranian ants are significantly cooler than the outside tempreture (<26C @ 50cm depth, <28C @ 10cm, i did lots of measurements when I was there in Jan). Check their distribution, and you will see that they do not live in countries that reguly top 40C for months on end, they often use the dead trunks of trees for their nests, which they will fill with brood to warm up, but we are talking about temps of 24-28C, not 30+, imo keeping this species at these tempretures is not good for them.

Metabolic rates, you are correct, if you speed it up to much, then it will slow down, as I said, but there is a point upto which you can speed things up, after that point the enzymes do not behave correctly, and eventually you will kill them. By increasing the tempreture, and therefore the metabolic rate, you are essentially speeding up the rate at which they use energy, the speed at which enzymes work, and the amount of oxygen they use, all these things contribute to a shorter life span, the clearest indication of this effect can be seen in tropical fish, temps of 27-28 degrees will make your fish far more active, but reduce their life span by upto 50%, temps between 25-27 they will slow down, but live longer, and on either side of those tempretures is one common outcome, death.

12-18 months is normal, as stated in The Ants, read it yourself, as I've already said, I dont feel i need to prove anything, unlike yourself.

I am going to assume, that as you are only 20, you cant yet have had your C herc colony(s) for 5+ years yet, so will not know whether or not you have reduced their life span by keeping them at that tempreture.

That is the END of this discussion on my experience thread, if you wish to start your own thread about it, then please feel free, but I do not want my experience thread filled up with your argumentative posts any more, please respect this, or i will ask for your posts to be deleted.

SteveUK28: (19. Mär 2008 01:12)

lol talk about gettin off track a little.. Miszt i totally agree with you friend. End of.. I look forward to seeing some more pics and info from ya miszt on these lovely ants :D

badman: (19. Mär 2008 09:02)

sorry miszt I know you wanted no further discussion of this, but

http://www.uaf.edu/museum/ento/Insect_Omnibus/Camponotus/herculeanus.html

this link contains the quote:

"In a mature colony, the single queen lays eggs throughout the summer, which soon hatch and overwinter as larvae. Larval growth is concentrated in June and early July. Growth then slows down and they spend a second winter as larvae, pupating during their second summer."

which does indeed cite "the ants" as reference. So there's your source frico.

KiamCameron: (19. Mär 2008 09:06)

:o camponotus herculeanus queen must have a hard time :/ Do they do what formica species or lay there eggs on there own or take workers from the originally colony to help her? Because 12-18 months wouldnt that kill her without no worker?

miszt: (19. Mär 2008 12:48)

thats pretty much exactly what The Ants says badman if my memory is correct, thanks for the link:)

Yep she certainly has a tough time Kiam, although they are pretty formidable ants, big and strong, hidden away inside there initial hole, anything that can fit inside the hole can probably be fought off by the Queen

Frico: (20. Mär 2008 21:43)

I will stop writing here then, but allow me a last comment to close my point.

I wasnt saying you were lying, but that u understood it wrong or didnt remember correctly.I'll never say that you know what you say is wrong and then claim it isnt.

As i said too, 31+ degrees is way to hot, and you should keep them from 25-30 for the best result.
I always cool them some degress down, when it reached 30 degrees, since its max.

And as i said for some posts ago, its a odd thing to say with the Metabolic rates.
Not because i dont beleave its true or not.That doesnt matter, the odd thing was, that you assumed that i must have kept the ants to hot because of their "faster" growth rate and that it would damage them.(im not sure if you even beleave me that they developed in 2 months)
But the thing is, you dont know where this damaging points is.Its not stated anywhere(we know), maybe you know the point of some fish, but you dont know it of this species.
Therefore its just an assumption, the point could be at 34 degrees etc!(im not saying it is).

And at last, whats everything is about, i was claiming that the regular/normal growth rate for the species as whole were 2-3 month and you said it was 12-18 Months.(everything else would be out of the normal and unhealthy for the Colony)
We were arguing about the species as a whole, not the species in an specific area.

I accept the Link and the statement as true, as i excepts my own aswell.

I wont open a second thread, since other people may not find it in the future, and be misinformed by either one of us.Therefore it should be ended here.
I wont make a second comment, unless i have "THE" answer for our discussion.
cya then.

-Frico

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